tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post8608984618629586621..comments2023-08-20T17:36:35.914+10:00Comments on Soooz Says Stuff: Topic: "Violence In Literature; when is Enough, Enough?" My guest today; Author, Evangeline Jennings.Soooz Burkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02390489724415063410noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-14559248724242467292011-08-19T14:44:53.619+10:002011-08-19T14:44:53.619+10:00I don't agree with the "porn for everyone...I don't agree with the "porn for everyone else" comment. Is there some kind of projection going on here? Also not really sure why someone else's opinion this subject had to be dragged into E's. I have read Gerry's work and I've read E's. Both very talented. Though I don't see where this disconnect is happening. They both write about similar subjects and from the same POV on the subject... is it just because Gerry has a penis that he can't write stories like this? Is that what the whole "feminist" comment was about?Rebecca Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11061835651928133947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-71270859787348905912011-08-15T22:21:47.910+10:002011-08-15T22:21:47.910+10:00Since you believe - and rightly, I think - that I&...Since you believe - and rightly, I think - that I've never read your work, why do you assume that my opinions were a "sucker punch" aimed at you?<br /><br />I wrote the majority of that piece in July before going on vacation and just tweaked it a little before submitting it. Other than the Munchausen misery lit comment - which was inspired by a particular book on Authonomy - my thoughts were not aimed at any specific individual. Just a class of writing and publishing.<br /><br />I think this is a difficult subject that would benefit from serious discussion.<br /><br />So here's a thought, why not tell me what's wrong with my argument - I think I left plenty of room for debate - rather than assume everything's about you? Because that seems like an awkward position to take - Oh, she's criticizing bad and dishonest writers who try to turn torture and rape into money, that's a direct attack on me!!!111111<br /><br />Your ass shall remain unkissed.<br /><br />Love<br /><br />Evie<br />xoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-62283599672563059942011-08-15T12:52:54.950+10:002011-08-15T12:52:54.950+10:00To everyone who reads the following comment whose ...To everyone who reads the following comment whose name is NOT Evangeline, please accept my preemptive apology for this disruption.<br /><br />Evangeline,<br />I think a soap box was the wrong place for a sucker punch leveled at someone you don't know. I especially liked the 'bums and losers' comment. That was pretty classy. You've obviously never read any of my work or you might not have lumped me in with actual munchie murder shit (or whatever you called it).<br /><br />'Opinionated bitch', yes, but you left out hypocrite. You can kiss my ass.<br /><br />Sincerely<br />Joe FormulaGerald D. Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894692435113847898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-20527040102511673602011-08-15T06:20:17.237+10:002011-08-15T06:20:17.237+10:00@Suzanne Just as you have acknowledged that I did ...@Suzanne Just as you have acknowledged that I did put a little thought into my first post, I really don't want an apology from you for pulling me up on a point of order. Your opinion is as valid as my own and what you believe is what you believe and that is sacrosanct. <br /><br />As far as opinions are concerned, there are six billion options out there. We will agree and disagree according to our life experiences.<br /><br />This is proof that Evangeline nailed it 'cos we're discussing the general question on her terms and along the examples she gave us. (Envy)Gary Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441603552497294666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-36017358401039680062011-08-14T22:15:13.755+10:002011-08-14T22:15:13.755+10:00These month' posts + the comments help enormou...These month' posts + the comments help enormously to wrap my own mind around this theme. Thank you all and thank you Sooz for making this possible. Violence in life and in the arts is so much more complicated and dualistic than the sex topic, which is usually about fun, no?Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15445403777276739492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-11692381774541172392011-08-14T22:13:36.608+10:002011-08-14T22:13:36.608+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15445403777276739492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-75182312393828364842011-08-14T20:17:31.384+10:002011-08-14T20:17:31.384+10:00Good post - sorry I didn't read the other comm...Good post - sorry I didn't read the other comments - I agree with you - the world has seen too much and and it can make a point - for example, violence against women. When is enough, enough - it seems like I have picked up several books that start with gruesome murders and the detectives describe the wounds in such detail - it just seems gratitious so I won't read much more. But when you're making a point - women being raped, a cheerleader being kicked off a team because she won't cheer for him - the intensity should match the motivation - by all means it's appropriate.<br /><br />Well said, I like it.KJ Kronhttp://stpeterkilledgod.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-71438001989383907102011-08-14T17:50:37.100+10:002011-08-14T17:50:37.100+10:00Gary, my intention when responding was not to get ...Gary, my intention when responding was not to get you right between the eyes; my response was a knee jerk reaction. I do most sincerely apologize. <br /><br />It was not my intention to attack you. <br /><br /> I appreciate the thought that has gone into your response and concur that there will undoubtedly be an element of readers that are of the sexual thrill variety. <br /><br />That saddens me enormously; in fact, it makes me feel more than a little sick to my stomach. <br /> <br />I would be naive in the extreme not to acknowledge the existence of such people, and naive is not something I can or would ever pretend to be.<br /><br />I agree that violence takes on many guises; emotional attack can leave scars that remain, long after the physical ones have faded and healed.<br /><br />“By all means let it all hang out but I want to read more than a victim impact statement, I want to know that the crime against the writer has been beaten, and that they can live their lives. Corny, I know, but that I who I am.”<br /><br />Knowing that the crime against the writer has been beaten and that they can live their lives, how wonderful that would be. If only all non-fiction ended with an element of hope. <br /><br /> I don’t consider your remark or the sentiment behind it in any way “corny.” <br /><br />Yet, if attention isn’t drawn to the wrong, how can we as a race ever hope to eradicate the wrongdoing? Is hiding from it, or shielding ourselves from it the way towards making it stop?<br /><br />The risk of desensitizing the public by saturation is I believe very real. Yet I use violence in my Fiction work.<br /><br />We can become desensitized simply by picking up a newspaper, switching on a television, or listening to the radio. <br /><br /> I don’t have any answers my friend, every time I have a moment when crystal clear clarity gives me a direction, it is lost in the murky waters of self-evaluation.<br /><br />Again ...I appreciate your input, a great deal.Soooz Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02390489724415063410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-21513471614781323952011-08-14T12:09:31.128+10:002011-08-14T12:09:31.128+10:00Well I asked for that Suzanne and I got it between...Well I asked for that Suzanne and I got it between the eyes but I have to ask, who is your reader? <br /><br />By that I mean to ask: Do you think that someone who has experienced horrific abuse would want to read about it? Possibly they would, for support or to get another perspective on what they went through by reading another victim's experiences but they are not the majority, they can't be. <br /><br />I contend that a majority of sales for this book is not comprised of empathetic readers who are female. I contend that misery literature as a genre (and it is a genre now) is grooming a male and dangerous market.<br /><br />Not everyone writes with the sensibility that brings the reader's heart into the equation. There have been cases where the writer has invented to gain publicity and media coverage. It's a messy percentile we're dealing with.<br /><br />Yes, I painted a broad stroke in my quoted comment but I will not apologise for pointing out what is a cynical industry that encourages more trauma and suffering to an audience that must be getting something out of it. Please remember my post of two days ago: words have a psychosomatic power. <br /><br />The question is about violence and the word violence is about doing harm - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. In the fictional novels I mentioned in the first post the 'good' is the protagonist but in misery lit it can easily go the other way because there is no dramatic rule to follow. I cite a very 'safe' novel by our standards: The Stranger by Camus but this novel by not showing a clear good and bad but exploring the internal world of a killer was considered subversive.<br /><br />Which it is: rightly so. <br /><br />Let us not consider the book as the only force in this transaction but we must consider writer and reader also. The Communist Manifesto, 39 theses against Papal indulgence, Principa Mathematica, A Brief History of Time, Books don't just change opinions, they change societies.<br /><br />I agree with your point that some writers will suffer to say what they have to say. I would love such a facility to have been given to the Irish victims of Clerical and State abuse so they didn't fall into alcoholism and self destruction - and that if it reaches one person that is in jeopardy than good but it can also feed those that love violence tourism and that's what the publishers want. Sales.<br /><br />When is enough, enough? <br /><br />By all means let it all hang out but I want to read more than a victim impact statement, I want to know that the crime against the writer has been beaten and that they can live their lives. Corny, I know, but that I who I am.Gary Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441603552497294666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-90557303906166992172011-08-14T11:11:12.037+10:002011-08-14T11:11:12.037+10:00Interesting commentary, and one which strikes clos...Interesting commentary, and one which strikes close to home. If I may quote..<br /><br />"At last someone has the ovaries to point out the psychosexual element in misery lit. It may be catharsis for the writer (if it's true) but it's porn for everyone else."<br /><br /><br />I don't consider "Empty Chairs" my own story of child abuse to have been 'cathartic' not in any measure. (If it's true?} Oh yes, it is...Yet sadly it may be viewed as yet another Misery lit novel, albeit a non-fiction one.<br /><br />Will it be viewed as "porn to everyone else"? I can only hope that is not the case.<br /><br />Some writers actually write their stories, and put themselves through the shit of having to relive the memories simply because they have something to say: something that they fervently hope will help someone else find a way to get the hell out of an abusive and threatening situation.Soooz Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02390489724415063410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-43905348168571177.post-45123196054691780762011-08-14T09:13:58.875+10:002011-08-14T09:13:58.875+10:00Thank you,
At last someone has the ovaries to poi...Thank you,<br /><br />At last someone has the ovaries to point out the psychosexual element in misery lit. It may be catharsis for the writer (if it's true) but it's porn for everyone else.<br /><br />I must point out that Val MacDiarmaid and Barbara Vine (Ruth Rendell in a bit of a mood) can certainly out-gore the boys but they also know how to horrify at the same time.<br /><br />No one handed reading from them. <br /><br />Hear Hear!Gary Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441603552497294666noreply@blogger.com